Posts by Doug Mason

21

All 144,000 are on earth while the Great Multitude is in heaven

by Doug Mason in

why do the 144,000 need sealing?.

what does it mean that the angels hold back the winds so that the sealing can take place?.

where is the great multitude?.

Doug Mason

jhine,

Perhaps the misogyny I see in the writer(s) of Revelation is symptomatic of the period. Revelation was written about 90 CE. Another book written towards the end of the first century is 1 Timothy and it reflects the same attitude towards women (1 Timothy 2:9-15).

Paul's attitude was that in God's sight all are the same - men and women are alike. 1 Timothy is one of several NT writings attributed to Paul that he was not responsible for. It was written decades after his death (64 CE) and its attitude reflects a situation that he did not envisage. Paul had been adamant that the end was imminent, so he was not concerned at organisational structure (bishops, etc.). Such matters became of interest to the church when the initial ardour cooled.

Doug

21

All 144,000 are on earth while the Great Multitude is in heaven

by Doug Mason in

why do the 144,000 need sealing?.

what does it mean that the angels hold back the winds so that the sealing can take place?.

where is the great multitude?.

Doug Mason

jhine,

I could be wrong - it's been known to happen - but from memory the Revelator speaks of men being "defiled" by women, and are being praised for thus being virgins. He uses disparaging expressions such as "Jezebel" when any number of men could have been used as illustration, and he sees a woman as the seducer, the harlot. He was speaking of Rome and I do not think that it was a matriarchal society that would provide him with a female temptress.

I am aware that he speaks of a woman going into the wilderness with her child but off the top of my (bald) head I do not recall where he obtained that imagery.

Sorry to be so vague, but any thoughts are absolutely most welcome, and if I am to be corrected, so be it.

You would have to wonder what cosmology the writer(s) had in mind when describing the descent of the New Jerusalem, but the picture from Genesis is that the sky is solid with windows; water was stored above this solid sky and rain fell when the widows were opened. God sat on his throne in the third heaven just above the firmament (sky) keeping an eye on proceedings. The earth was a disc with pillars at the edge holding up the sky and the dead went to the waters beneath the earth (conduct a Google Image search for Hebrew cosmology).

As you say, the imagery is that the New Jerusalem is a "bride" but I think the WTS has only males in that city (or that the term "New Jerusalem" means the 144,000 males. Now I am not homophobic but the imagery is interesting.

As a complete aside, following the destruction of the city of London in 1666, it was rebuilt by people who anticipated that London was to be the New Jerusalem. Even as late as 1918, many Brits saw themselves as the true Israelites, their expectations heightened with the Balfour agreement.

One significant British Israelite was Piazzi Smyth, from whom Russell got his pyramidology.

Doug

27

The Watchtower Society is confused over its “Seventy Years” and "Seven Times"

by Doug Mason in

until now, the watch tower society [wts] has argued that the 70 years was a period during which judah was totally and completely depopulated.

for this reason, it constantly argued that the period commenced when the jews left judah and entered egypt.

jerusalem was destroyed in the fifth month (two months before october/tishri).

Doug Mason

processor,

Fascinating. Well done.

Doug

21

All 144,000 are on earth while the Great Multitude is in heaven

by Doug Mason in

why do the 144,000 need sealing?.

what does it mean that the angels hold back the winds so that the sealing can take place?.

where is the great multitude?.

Doug Mason

Magnum,

Thank you for your kind words. I sincerely hope that I inspire people to undertake their own study and come to their own conclusions - provided they are willing to adjust their understandings as they keep ever learning.

I do not want anyone to blindly accept what I or anyone else writes, but that each will take charge of their own thinking.

For the past 50 years, my intention has always been to sever the mental umbilical cord that connects the Watch Tower Society with people's minds, and to help people to set themselves free.

Doug

21

All 144,000 are on earth while the Great Multitude is in heaven

by Doug Mason in

why do the 144,000 need sealing?.

what does it mean that the angels hold back the winds so that the sealing can take place?.

where is the great multitude?.

Doug Mason

Divergent,

My take on John is that he has a Jewish background, or is at least highly tolerant of Jews. He is well versed in the Hebrew Scriptures; with every verse either quoting or alluding to them (not that there was a Hebrew Canon at the time). When he says the 144,000 are from the Hebrew tribes/families, I believe that is precisely what he means. If the 144,000 were literal - as the WTS says - then its composition is literal.

I see the writer as a mysoginist - his women are harlots and "Jezebel" while the 144,000 are not "defiled" with women. He is not a balanced individual.

The Watch Tower says of the 144,000 that they are neither men nor women:

"These all must receive a change of nature at their resurrection, being made partakers together of 'divine nature,' in which state none will be women, for there is no female sex among spirit creatures." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol. 2, page, art. “Women”)

So they become gods, partakers of the divine nature.

We do not know who the writer was. The book was one of many apocalypses written at the time and it had great trouble being accepted by the church as Scripture.

It is a dangerous book to base one's beliefs on.

If you have the opportunity, read: "A History of the End of the World: How the Most Controversial Book in the Bible Changed the Course of Western Civilization", by Jonathan Kirsch

Doug

21

All 144,000 are on earth while the Great Multitude is in heaven

by Doug Mason in

why do the 144,000 need sealing?.

what does it mean that the angels hold back the winds so that the sealing can take place?.

where is the great multitude?.

Doug Mason

Why do the 144,000 need sealing?

What does it mean that the angels hold back the winds so that the sealing can take place?

Where is the Great Multitude?

http://www.jwstudies.com/Revelation_chapters_6_and_7.pdf

Doug

19

"New Light never contradicts Old Light, but simply adds to it"

by stuckinarut2 in

does anyone remember this classic quote from a society publication??.

i remember it has been quoted many times, but i cant find the reference.. if this comment is to be taken literally, it condemns the organization anytime there has been a complete changes in teachings and doctrine!

.

Doug Mason

Whether they express themselve explicitly about "new light" or not, the proof is in their actions right to the present day.

Will they get "new light" about "new light"?

Doug

19

"New Light never contradicts Old Light, but simply adds to it"

by stuckinarut2 in

does anyone remember this classic quote from a society publication??.

i remember it has been quoted many times, but i cant find the reference.. if this comment is to be taken literally, it condemns the organization anytime there has been a complete changes in teachings and doctrine!

.

Doug Mason

Mad Irishman,

They know they are telling the truth because they have to keep correcting themselves. As they say:

“Some have called Jehovah’s witnesses ‘false prophets’ because, in times past, they have viewed things a certain way and, later, have made a change through their official publications. Or, there may have been practices by some members in the organization that have been permitted to continue for a time for lack of knowledge as to how to handle these things, but later they have learned from God’s Word what his will is and have gone ahead and made the necessary corrections. False prophets do not correct themselves” (The Watchtower, June 1, 1967, page 331)

Doug

10

The end of the age or the end times what did the Bible writers mean?

by Crazyguy in

there are plenty of scriptures pointing to the idea that the end was near according to the scriptures way back then.

example at act chapter 2 peter states were in the last days, at 1john chapter 2 in the last hour.

jesus stated he would be back before some of that generation died and of course the famous quote 'this generation'.

Doug Mason

“As a work of prophecy, of course, Revelation is wholly and self-evidently wrong. ‘How long, O Lord, holy and true, until you judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?’ demands the biblical author, quoting the souls of the dead martyrs, and he answers his own question by attributing an unambiguous promise to Jesus Christ: ‘Behold, I am coming soon.’ (Rev. 6:10-11, 3:11, RSV) Those words were first reduced to writing nearly two thousand years ago, but the readers of Revelation are still waiting for the day of revenge that is predicted with such clarity and confidence in the ancient text.

“The author of Revelation is not the only figure in Christian scriptures whose prediction of the end-times was mistaken. Jesus, according to some awkward sayings attributed to him in the Gospels, assures his followers that at least some of them will see the end of the world with their own eyes. The apostle Paul, in turn, offered the same assurance to his generation of Christians. Both Jesus and Paul were gone by the time the author of Revelation set down his vision of ‘things which must shortly come to pass.’ (Rev. 1:1, KJV) All of them turned out to be dead wrong, and the world is still here. …

“More than a few readers of Revelation in every age, including our own, have thrilled at the idea that the end is near. Indeed, they are perfectly willing to overlook the plain fact that the world has not ended as predicted, and they persist in poring over the text of Revelation in a fresh attempt to figure out the precise date when it will. They have always been wrong, too, of course, but nothing has discouraged the so-called date setters who study the text, crunch the numbers, and come up with dates when the world must end. Not a single century has passed since the ink dried on the first copy of Revelation without some new prediction of the precise date when its prophecies will finally come to pass.” (“A History of the End of the World”, pages 13-14, Jonathan Kirsch)

27

The Watchtower Society is confused over its “Seventy Years” and "Seven Times"

by Doug Mason in

until now, the watch tower society [wts] has argued that the 70 years was a period during which judah was totally and completely depopulated.

for this reason, it constantly argued that the period commenced when the jews left judah and entered egypt.

jerusalem was destroyed in the fifth month (two months before october/tishri).

Doug Mason

They know they are telling the truth because they have to keep correcting themselves:

“Some have called Jehovah’s witnesses ‘false prophets’ because, in times past, they have viewed things a certain way and, later, have made a change through their official publications. Or, there may have been practices by some members in the organization that have been permitted to continue for a time for lack of knowledge as to how to handle these things, but later they have learned from God’s Word what his will is and have gone ahead and made the necessary corrections. False prophets do not correct themselves” (The Watchtower, June 1, 1967, page 331)